My Brilliant Friend, by Elena Ferrante

[boxofdelights]

There's a lot of violence and threat of violence in this book, which I hadn't osmosed from its reputation. The narrative doesn't dwell on it, but it is always there, in the background. As little girls, there is a lot that Lena and Lila don't understand about the dangers around them, so they make up stories that make sense to them.

I love this depiction of friendship that is as important as familial or romantic love. Lena and Lila may go on to love other people, but this formative relationship shapes who they are, and who they can be to other people.

Someone at book group said, about the jealousy and cruelty the girls sometimes showed each other, "I don't mean to be sexist, but that's how women's friendships are, aren't they? You love her so much, you would do anything for her, as long as she isn't better than you." I puzzled over the implication that men love it when their friends outdo them. Then I realized that she wasn't contrasting women's friendships with men's friendships, she was contrasting how women are with how women are supposed to be. Women are always supposed to put other people's interests first. A woman who grasps at something for herself is a bad woman.

Well, Lena and Lila aren't bad or good, they're just fully-rounded humans.

Comments

[lunabee34]

Sounds very interesting!

[kore]

I haven't read her yet but I NEED TO.

I guess the way I would put it is, in cliche terms men learn to be more "comfortable" with competition through sports or whatever (or just as a part of general culture) and yeah, women are supposed to be helpful and nurturing and of course they're just as competitive as men are, but it isn't allowed to be expressed so it fucks people up. Back in the day I remember that was actually an argument for Title IX supporting girls' sports in the States -- so that girls could get more confident and competitive and feel like "I can do things just like the boys can." Which can be its own kettle of worms, but at least it was a step up from Tarzan Hunt, Jane Hug.

[lilysea]

I'm reminded of the song from the Broadway musical Mean Girls

So raise your right finger
And solemnly swear
"Whatever they say about me
I don’t care!"

I won’t twist in knots to join your game
I will say, "you make me mad."
And if you treat me bad
I’ll say “you’re bad”

We’re supposed to all be ladies
And be nurturing and care
Is that really fair?
Boys get to fight, we have to share

Here’s the way that that turns out
We always understand
How to slap someone down
With our underhand

So here’s my right finger
To how girls should behave
'Cause sometimes what’s meant to break you
Makes you brave

So I will not act all innocent
I won’t fake apologize
Let’s just fight and then make up
Not tell these lies

Let’s call our damage even
Clean the slate till it's like new
It’s a new life for me
Where I’d rather be me
I’d rather be me
Than be with you

https://youtu.be/B-dywz4L6Y8

[kore]

HAH, I had no idea there was a musical! Nice!

[siderea]

I puzzled over the implication that men love it when their friends outdo them. Then I realized that she wasn't contrasting women's friendships with men's friendships, she was contrasting how women are with how women are supposed to be. Women are always supposed to put other people's interests first. A woman who grasps at something for herself is a bad woman.

Are those the only two possibilities? Because they seem equally horrifying to me.

It seems to me the implication is neither that men love it when their friends "outdo" them, nor "Gee, whiz, look at those women not being womanly self-effacing". Either way, what an astonishingly competitive frame to put on friendship.

The implication is that men can better tolerate their friends' excellences, and even celebrate them. The implication is that men are socialized to feel one has some moral responsibility to reject jealousy of others' talents and accomplishments.

Perhaps that is true. The book The Curse of the Good Girl gave me enormous food for thought about this, and I recommend it.

I don't know. A lot of people attest to this phenomenon – how women relate to women – which I don't feel I have ever encountered. I feel I ought to believe it's true on their account, but I find myself dubious, out of my own (lack of) experience. I've not noticed women behaving this way, but so many people, including women speaking of themselves, claim it's true.