(no subject)

[boxofdelights]

http://wiscon.dreamwidth.org/72717.html

Shaming is a really powerful weapon. Using shame to shut people up is problematic.

Comments

[elisem]

I read the original post. I wanted to answer, but decided not to because I didn't feel up to dealing with whatever sh*tstorm might come down on me from doing so. (Knowing how much energy I have for what things = survival skill.)

I read this.

I went back and posted the comment I wanted to make. Because yeah, I've had people try to shame me before. It's not been a tactic associated with the people I remember most fondly.

Edited to add: I posted in the LJ version, because that's what I saw first and it's where the comment I wanted to reply to was situated.

Edited again to add: Argh. And now I am having that problem where I can't remember how to write the linking HTML on Dreamwidth, and the version from LJ doesn't work. Foo. OK, here's what I'm trying to link to: wiscon.livejournal.com/374090.html

[boxofdelights]

I wanted to answer, but decided not to because I didn't feel up to dealing with whatever sh*tstorm might come down on me from doing so.

Me too. Then I went back and answered because I think talking about shame is important for me right now. I'm glad you answered too.

[elisem]

Good. I will go read yours.

And I'll try to figure out what doesn't work about the linkingness. Please excuse me testing something here for a minute, OK?

AHA! Got it. This goes to the LJ wiscon post I commented on.

[jinian]

The tactic is unacceptable, definitely. Thanks for pointing that out.

I am fairly sympathetic to the person using it, too, though. I read them as feeling unsafe and freaking out due to the way the panel description was written, which really could have been more affirming of the way "of course everyone at Wiscon feels" -- it sounds a lot like the panel description is saying corporate ownership of bodies might possibly be legitimate.

[elisem]

OK, I have written something here and deleted it twice, so obviously I've got some strong feelings going on about this as well. I am going to try to say this very carefully nevertheless.

I have artificial parts. (Cobalt-chromium, to be precise.) I fit exactly within the scope of some of the things the panel is set up to discuss. "Freaking out" might be one way to describe some of the reaction I'm having to the shaming language used.
They dumped a big old bucket of shame down on me and anybody else who was interested in the topic. (Even if they did give me a discount on the shame for being a fellow crip. How generous of them.)

Nope, I can't type this without having to go back and delete the expletives. I am going to go take a break for a while.

[jinian]

You have every right to feel all kinds of upset. And everyone who's responded has been way, way more reasonable and productive than the original poster, who was a complete jerk. I understand their feelings, not their behavior. I held myself back from calling them out on their shaming only because it had been done so well before I got there. I'm sorry that I contributed to your unhappiness about the situation.

[elisem]

Thought of one important thing I left out:

Yes, that person's reaction to the panel and its title are important and should be worked with. One of the programming people posted that the panel title and description are being rewritten. I am glad of that.

[the_siobhan]

I really liked your comment.

[boxofdelights]

Thank you.

[cme]

Thanks for this post, and I like your comment there.

I'm not sure shame is ever a good or reasonable motivational tactic. I'm not sure it ever gets us what anyone involved wants.

[amaebi]

Ah. Yes.

I'm very impressed by the style of the responses, though.

[wordweaverlynn]

That's Wiscon. Full of good people.