motherlove. money.

[boxofdelights]

My mother used to tell me, "I love you, but I sure don't like you." By the time I was ten, I knew she was lying. She didn't love me, and there was nothing I could do about it.

For decades, I believed that this was because I was a bad person. Then I had a child.

My mother was 'accidentally' locking me out of the house before I was five. I know that some children are a lot harder to love than others. My school reports and the stories my mother tells imply that I was an abnormally good or at least obedient child, but even if I weren't: no five-year-old deserves to be locked out of the house.


I'm thinking about this because I'm about to ask her for money. My older brother and younger sister have had lots of handouts over the years, but I've never needed anything. Even when I did need money--

My parents divorced when I was fourteen. The divorce decree said they were each responsible for half of our undergraduate education expenses. Also there were trust funds, set up as tax shelters when we were much younger, which my mother and one of her brothers controlled. Somehow, my older brother and younger sister got a complete free-ride education at Notre Dame out of this, while I got in-state tuition at the University of Michigan. For living expenses and textbooks, I had student loans and minimum-wage jobs.

So now, I want this house. Hugh will give me $180K, which is half the market value of his house. The seller wants $225K. Zillow says it's worth $211K. I'm going to ask my mother to lend me $30K, which I will pay back in nine years (when my kids are through college) or when I sell the house, whichever comes first.

Comments

[aquaeri]

I wish you good luck negotiating with your maternal parental unit.

[bibliofile.livejournal.com]

Oooh. Good luck!

[hobbitbabe.livejournal.com]

No five-year-old should be locked out of the house. No ten-year-old should be lied to or not loved.

And I hope you get the money, no extra strings, and the house.

[schemingreader.livejournal.com]

There's a program for people borrowing money from family and friends called Circle Lending. If you don't trust your mom to just trust you, investigate using that.

I don't understand why the house you live in with Hugh is "his house" and not your house together--even if you are splitting up. In fact, isn't that precisely why the state gets involved in divorce? To make sure of that?

There's a lot of stuff in your life that is a more extreme or worse version of stuff in mine. Every time you reveal one of these things, I think, "Ah, like me, only worse. For me that's meant this. For her it must hurt worse." Even though I think you determined a long time ago to show it much, much less.

[amaebi.livejournal.com]

My thumbs are clenched not only for the results you need, but for the difficult and painful task.

[redbird]

I hope you get what you need, and not too much stress with it.

As you said, no child deserves what your mother did or said, even if she had trouble loving you for some reason to do with her.

[wcg.livejournal.com]

That is a *nice* house! Best of luck getting the funds from your mom.

[bcholmes.livejournal.com]

If I were in your place, I'd be feeling huge amounts of... I dunno... huge amounts of "I don't want to do this" just because of dealing with such a family member. I hope this goes smoothly for you.

[cakmpls.livejournal.com]

The house is quite adorable. I hope this works out perfectly for you!

IMHO, it's OK not to like our kids sometimes; they and we are human, and few humans like each other 100% of the time. Telling them so, especially at such a young age--not OK at all. It's even OK not to love them; we don't love every adult we meet, and some people just aren't a good match. Letting them ever know it, in any way--very much not OK. And treating them unequally financially--my spouse, who does estate planning, could tell you such horror stories...

[eeyorerin]

That.

[snippy]

I support you asking your mom for this. You deserve it, and I hope you get it.

[lookfar.livejournal.com]

Reparations! I wonder if you can put it this way, or is it better to be more strategic.

[fourgates.livejournal.com]

You may be able to get a loan for the amount you need, even without any documented income.

In no particular order because my brain is that way this morning:

- When C and I bought our current house in TO, we had to put 30% 0r 35% (I can't remember) down because my U.S. income, even with tax statements, doesn't mean anything to the Canadian banks. At 30 or 35%, the loan/value ratio has enough equity to qualify for loans normally used to finance a rental property (more below).

In ordinary circumstances, a 20% equity level ensures that you aren't going to get "under water" with a declining real estate market. Under extraordinary circumstances (such as the last two years), 30% will probably be considered sufficient. I'd guess we're probably 60+% of the way through the declining values phase in most area, so you're probably safe but that doesn't mean you won't lose equity for a while. In any case I would expect the banks to be happy to loan you 60% or more of the house's appraised value without any income.

One might be tempted to call this a "no doc" loan, but the ickier ones of those were taken out by people with 700+ credit ratings who were getting loans that were way too large, based on fabricated income levels, seeking maximum leverage.

Regarding rental properties: Banks like to see two things: 1) more equity up front than with a primary residence, 2) enough expected rental income to cover the mortgage. When computing income they don't figure monthly rent X 12; it's rent x 9, because they need to assume it'll be vacant up to 25% of the year.

If your intention is for Hugh to sign a mortgage on this house for you, then what I'm suggesting will not apply -- that mortgage is part of the loan/value equation. I'm assuming that the $180K is currently available or that he'd be taking a new or second mortgage on the house you're living in now -- so he could effectively just hand the cash to you.

Actually you might need to borrow $50K instead of $30K; some lenders don't like dealing with what look to them like car loans, because a) they don't make as much commission on them, b) they may get lumped in with should-have-been-torn-down-anyway houses. I had that problem when I bought the Baltimore house for $35K.

Now if Hugh can get $180K readily, in my opinion it'd be wise to get a $50K or $60K loan instead of $30K anyway. That would give you a cushion and/or buy you some time for career transition. If you're paying 6% interest, but getting 4% from bonds or dividends while your're transitioning, then you're only losing $400-600/yr for that security.

[aedifica]

That's a cute house, and I wish you good luck!

[jinian.livejournal.com]

The college funding disparity is messed up! I'm so sorry that your mother has treated you that way. Going to the bank for a loan sounds like it could be a better idea, I agree, but you will know what's best to do overall.

The house is quite adorable. I can see what they're asking for a higher price if it's that well kept inside too, but right now I doubt they'll do better than the offer you're implying with your 180+30 equation. Best of luck in the unpredictable house-buying process.

[bheansidhe.livejournal.com]

What an awful history. What a beautiful house. Best of luck obtaining what you deserve.

[baratron.livejournal.com]

Good luck. Lots of it. All the luck in the world.

Out of interest, what was the age difference between you and your older siblings? I wonder if you were "an accident", and came along at an inconvenient time in your mother's life? Sometimes mothers set against their children because of that, as if it were your fault when you were conceived :(

Also, I wonder about patterning. Perhaps it is because your mother didn't love you or care about you properly that you've managed to keep going in a loveless relationship for so long. But it could also be how you've managed to forge such a good relationship with your own children. Hmm.

[boxofdelights]

Yes, Hugh is taking a mortgage on his house, so I can offer cash, no concessions, no contingencies except a satisfactory house inspection, timing to suit the seller.

I decided that if my mother won't help, then I just can't afford this house. I mean, theoretically I could, but we decided that the amount of debt we were comfortable paying off while putting two kids through college -- neither of whom will be kind enough to get mediocre grades & go to CSU -- was $180K. What if Hugh gets laid off? What if lots of engineers get laid off, and they're all trying to sell their expensive houses at the same time?

[bunnyjadwiga.livejournal.com]

*hugs* Good luck.

[boxofdelights]

I'm the middle child: a year and a half younger than my brother, two years older than my sister. I'm pretty sure my brother was the accident; that is, I think my parents 'had to' get married. My mom was always very vague about her wedding anniversary. "Some people care about those things, but I don't," she used to say. I can believe that, but I can't believe her claim not to remember what month or even what season it was.

My parents had favorites, and I was my dad's. He was cruel to all of us, but I was the one he loved. Maybe my mom felt that since I had his love, I didn't need hers. Or maybe -- she used to tell me, "You're just like your father," (which was another thing that convinced me that I was a bad person) -- she was expressing toward me what she felt toward my dad. Or maybe people are not only more complicated than we imagine, they're more complicated than we can imagine!

[pennski.livejournal.com]

*More hugs*. I hope this works out for you.

[sev]

I am sorry that woman failed to be a mother to you.

To kind-of echo what schemingreader said, it sounds like it will be "his house" once you have the $180K, but right now it's still your-plural house.

[lcohen]

i hope that this all works out in the best possible way, whatever way that turns out to be.

words fail me when i try to describe what i wish on your mother. but i hope she contributes the $30K.

[pir-anha.livejournal.com]

yes, this. *sigh*.

wishing you the very best.