Overheard from the Smof Mailing List

[boxofdelights]

“If someone is following you around because he really, really wants to apologize to you, if you let him apologize, he won’t keep following you around for that reason.”

If someone is following you around because he really, really wants to fuck you, if you let him fuck you, he won’t keep following you around for that reason.

Comments

[snippy]

So very appalling, the lack of thought.

[boxofdelights]

Yeah. I'm talking about something similar with my son, as I imagine you did with yours. It's such a different conversation, when "I don't understand why you feel that way" means "I don't understand (so I'm going to listen while you try to explain it)" instead of "I don't understand (so you must be crazy, or lying.)"

[akirlu.livejournal.com]

I truly wish you would not give fuel to that particular troll by reposting its distortions. The person doing that Tumblr is taking remarks out of context, often grotesquely so, from a private mail list, without permission from any of the copyright owners. At the very least, if you support the rights of people to own their own words, please don't encourage that person. If you oppose pouring oil on flames, as opposed to intelligent argument, please don't encourage that person. If you want to find out what people have *actually* said on the SMOFs list, instead of truncated, anonymized selections maliciously intended to stir up shit and encourage pointless Us-vs-Themism, join the SMOFs list. Anyone is welcome to.

[schemingreader]

Who are the SMOFs? Is there a whole big story behind this?

[boxofdelights]

"SMOFs" is a jokey nickname for people who run science fiction conventions.

It is a whole big story. It begins with Rene Walling's sexual harassment of Genevieve Valentine at Readercon. You can read as much more of the story as you care to from this link collection: http://blog.bcholmes.org/the-readercon-thing/#more-169

[boxofdelights]

I don't mean to be dismissive. I just don't want to talk at you longer than you want to listen.

[bibliofile]

While this particular quote may be out of context, it's a sentiment that I've heard personally from other people while discussin the larger topic. (Alas.)

[firecat]

This.

[brigantine]

Um, I'm honestly not sure how you're making the leap to the latter from the former. Did I miss something? O_o?

(Edit: Apparently when I'm confused I can't use prepositions properly... *facepalm*)

[boxofdelights]

The comment I quoted is part of the extended aftermath of Rene Walling's sexual harassment of Genevieve Valentine at Readercon. (If you want to read more about it: http://blog.bcholmes.org/the-readercon-thing/)

I took that comment to mean that Valentine should have let Walling apologize. (As akirlu points out, I read the comment out of its context, and I could be wrong about what it meant.)

So, remembering that I was not there, and I can't read minds, and I've only read the publicly posted things that you can also read, I believe that:

-- Walling started following Valentine around because he really, really wanted to fuck her.
-- Valentine escalated her rejections until Walling got the message.
-- Walling then followed Valentine around because he really, really wanted to apologize.

I'm not saying that Walling's repeated attempts to apologize after Valentine told him to stop are as bad as his sexual harassment, though I do think they come from the same place.

[amaebi]

"You haven't heard me or understood me until you fulfil my desire!"

[brigantine]

*reads* Eeww.... :P

[malka]

Well, if you let him apologize to you, he'll probably start following you around because you weren't sufficiently egostroking in your response to his apology. While this is technically a different reason, it's not exactly an improvement. Nor is it a change in the meta-reason: he wants you to give him attention and unearned respect.

[boxofdelights]

And if you give a mouse a cookie...

(Which is to say yes, I agree with you.)